Resource Don't Use That, Use This (V2)

Don't Use That, Use This

Original thread in BW RU by DittoCrow
OP stolen from me because i'm pro like that
Approved by the PU Moderators and MQJinx who let me take this over

The PU ladder is a strange, strange place. It is filled to the brim with players using bad, outclassed, or flat-out unviable sets or Pokemon such as Assault Vest Regice, Slaking, non-Choice Band Dusknoir, and Pikachu. This thread aims to remedy this disturbing trend by showing newer players which Pokemon and sets are bad, why they are bad, and which Pokemon or sets can perform a similar role to a much better effect.

Here is an example of how you should format your responses:

Don't use that:


Gigalith @ Normal Gem
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Superpower
- Explosion


Why it's bad:

While Gigalith isn't a terrible Pokemon on its own, it is a very outclassed one. While its lack of 4x weaknesses and higher attack may seem like good reasons to use it over Golem, it lacks many things that make Golem good. Firstly, it lacks STAB Earthquake, which is a huge asset to Golem. Addionally, it is very slow, lacks Sucker Punch, and lacks Golem's useful immunity to Electric.

Instead, use this:


Golem @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch


Why it's better:
Golem posesses many advantages over Gigalith, namely its access to STAB Earthquake, Sucker Punch, a Speed stat that lets it outspeed most defensive Pokemon and make effective use of Weakness Policy. Overall, these traits make Golem a much more effective Stealth Rock setter than Gigalith in PU that should always be used instead of its fellow Rock-type.

Rules:

-Make sure the set / Pokemon that you're talking about is actually decently common; anyone with a brain can tell that Unown isn't a viable choice in PU, but Pokemon that actually get usage such as Meganium are the type of thing that this thread is meant to inform about.

-Please don't just bash certain Pokemon, the point is of this thread is to inform players why the set / move / Pokemon they're using is bad, something which is undermined if all you do is hate on it without explaining to them why they shouldn't use it.


Finally, here's a few examples of decently common yet facepalm-worthy things from the moveset stats that would be good to write posts about:

-non-CM Dusclops
-non-CB Dusknoir
-Assault Vest Throh
-Assault Vest Beheeyem
-Assault Vest Regice
-Assault Vest Victreebel
-Assault Vest on anything that isn't Kecleon
-252 Defense Avalugg
-Pikachu
-Scarf Zebstrika
-non-CB Relicanth
-non-CB Luxray
-Wartortle


and so on, I think you get the point by now, there are plenty of examples. Here is a good place to look.
 

MZ

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Raichu usage:
Modest:4/0/0/252/0/252 3.404%
Hidden Power Water 6.894%

Don't use this
026.gif
Raichu @ Choice Scarf/Expert Belt/Life Orb
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Water]

Hidden power water is an overall weak coverage move for raichu, and modest nature ruins its excellent speed tier that normally ties with tauros and outpaces threats from haunter to simipour to kadabra.

Use this
026.gif
Raichu @ Choice Scarf/Expert Belt/Life Orb
Ability: Lightningrod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Grass knot

Grass knot is a much better move for raichu as it hits piloswine and golem, the main targets of hp water, much harder. Timid keeps its excellent speed tier allowing it to be a much more effective revenge killer/sweeper/volt-turner

tell me if I need longer descriptions pls
 
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this should be obvious but the ladder doesnt make it seem so lol.
Dont use that:

Ariados @ Focus Sash
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sticky Webs
- Megahorn
- Toxic Spikes
- Sucker Punch

Why it's bad:
While it may seem attractive to have two great hazards one one pokemon Ariados simply doesnt have enough speed to get more than one of these off while being easily killed after its sash is broken. Also its blatant taunt bait against other pokemon.
Use this:


Leavanny @ Focus Sash
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Sticky Web
- Leaf Storm
- Knock Off
- Magic Coat

Why it's better:
Leavanny is so much better against the meta. Its faster, it has knock off, and it outspeeds common taunters like Monferno, Misdreavus, and Barbaracle. This allows it to magic coat taunts back and get up webs for free and potentially get off a nice knock off or a strong leaf storm against the opposition.

Side note: Leaf storm 1hkos Marowak
 
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ManOfMany

I can make anything real
is a Tiering Contributor
Didn't realize marowak avoids OHKO from leaf blade, that's insane...

Anyway, I've been seeing too much of this pokemon on the ladder

Wigglytuff @ leftovers
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 HP/252 SpD/4 Def
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Toxic
- Dazzling Gleam/Hyper Voice

Why it's bad
Wigglytuff is cute, yes. But extremely deceptive!! It is NOT bulky, in fact its bulk is more or less equal to porygon-Z and nidoking. And less than Wailord. Even when invested it fails to wall many prominent special attackers such as simipour/sear, aurorus, Mr.Mime, Haunter, Chatot, Specs Rotom, etc and is total set-up bait for others such as ninetales and swoobat. And because you have to invest so much in one defense to get any advantage, the other defense is just left totally open, making it way too frail on the physical side.

Competitive is a nice ability, but honestly not worth it the vast majority of the time. Wigglytuff still fails to OHKO stuff with a competitive boost yet can barely tank physical hits at all.

I'll write what to use instead later today, I just felt like getting this out...

Use this:


Togetic @Eviolite
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP/252 SpD/4 Def
Calm Nature
- Roost
- Dazzling Gleam/Air Slash
- Thunder Wave/Toxic
- Heal Bell/Defog

or this

Lickilicky @ leftovers
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 HP/252 SpD/4 Def
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Body Slam
- Heal Bell/Toxic/Knock Off

Why they are better:

Both of these pokemon are far bulkier than Wigglytuff on both the physical and special sides.
 
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MZ

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Didn't realize marowak avoids OHKO from leaf blade, that's insane...

Anyway, I've been seeing too much of this pokemon on the ladder

Wigglytuff @ leftovers
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 HP/252 SpD/4 Def
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Toxic
- Dazzling Gleam/Hyper Voice

Why it's bad
Wigglytuff is cute, yes. But extremely deceptive!! It is NOT bulky, in fact its bulk is more or less equal to porygon-Z and nidoking. And less than Wailord. Even when invested it fails to wall many prominent special attackers such as simipour/sear, aurorus, Mr.Mime, Haunter, Chatot, Specs Rotom, etc and is total set-up bait for others such as ninetales and swoobat. And because you have to invest so much in one defense to get any advantage, the other defense is just left totally open, making it way too frail on the physical side.

Competitive is a nice ability, but honestly not worth it the vast majority of the time. Wigglytuff still fails to OHKO stuff with a competitive boost yet can barely tank physical hits at all.

I'll write what to use instead later today, I just felt like getting this out...
Try suggesting Lickilicky
 
Try suggesting Lickilicky
while lickilicky is the best direct replacement for this set, in situations like this where a usable mon has an outclassed set that gets used, you can suggest the mon that outclasses it as a replacement, but you can also suggest the non-outclassed set for the mon in question (in this case lo sr wiggly on webs) in addition to a different mon (note that i'm saying to suggest both replacements in the same post, not just the non-outclassed set on the same mon).

This obviously isn't mandatory, but just giving you guys a heads up about another thing you can do in this thread.
 
Didn't realize marowak avoids OHKO from leaf blade, that's insane...

Anyway, I've been seeing too much of this pokemon on the ladder

Wigglytuff @ leftovers
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 HP/252 SpD/4 Def
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Toxic
- Dazzling Gleam/Hyper Voice

Why it's bad
Wigglytuff is cute, yes. But extremely deceptive!! It is NOT bulky, in fact its bulk is more or less equal to porygon-Z and nidoking. And less than Wailord. Even when invested it fails to wall many prominent special attackers such as simipour/sear, aurorus, Mr.Mime, Haunter, Chatot, Specs Rotom, etc and is total set-up bait for others such as ninetales and swoobat. And because you have to invest so much in one defense to get any advantage, the other defense is just left totally open, making it way too frail on the physical side.

Competitive is a nice ability, but honestly not worth it the vast majority of the time. Wigglytuff still fails to OHKO stuff with a competitive boost yet can barely tank physical hits at all.

I'll write what to use instead later today, I just felt like getting this out...

Use this:


Togetic @Eviolite
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP/252 SpD/4 Def
Calm Nature
- Roost
- Dazzling Gleam/Air Slash
- Thunder Wave/Toxic
- Heal Bell/Defog

or this

Lickilicky @ leftovers
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 HP/252 SpD/4 Def
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Body Slam
- Heal Bell/Toxic/Knock Off

Why they are better:

Both of these pokemon are far bulkier than Wigglytuff on both the physical and special sides.
Hey buddy, small nitpick but Togetic doesn't actually get Air Slash.
 
Don't use this:


Slaking @ Choice Band
Ability: Truant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Giga Impact / Retaliate
- Earthquake
- Night Slash
- Thunder Punch / Low Kick

Slaking's 160 base attack, high 150 HP, and good 100 speed may seem like it is too good to pass up on, especially in a low tier like this. But there is one reason to never use Slaking, and that is Truant. Truant makes you complete set-up fodder for some of the best set-up sweepers, like Barbaracle, Carracosta, Sneasel, etc.
Some may say that Slaking's bulk and power makes up for this, but it really doesn't, as there are better normal types that can dish out powerful damage outputs, and be able to attack every turn.

Instead, use this:


Bouffalant @ Choice Band
Ability: Sap Sipper / Soundproof
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Head Charge / Return
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge / Pursuit
- Megahorn

Bouffalant is a much better banded normal type, being able to dish out good damage, as well as being able to attack every turn, unlike Slaking. It also has good abilities in Sap Sipper, allowing it to wall most Grass types, as well as boost its already large attack stat, giving it scary damage outputs, or you can use Soundproof, which allows you to wall Chatot and check Aurorus if they are problems to your team. Speed is to outspeed max speed Adamant Kecleon.
 
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Don't use this:


Slaking @ Choice Band
Ability: Truant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Giga Impact / Retaliate
- Earthquake
- Night Slash
- Thunder Punch / Low Kick

Slaking's 160 base attack, high 150 HP, and good 100 speed may seem like it is too good to pass up on, especially in a low tier like this. But there is one reason to never use Slaking, and that is Truant. Truant makes you complete set-up fodder for some of the best set-up sweepers, like Barbaracle, Carracosta, Sneasel, etc.
Some may say that Slaking's bulk and power makes up for this, but it really doesn't, as there are better normal types that can dish out powerful damage outputs, and be able to attack every turn.

Instead, use this:


Bouffalant @ Choice Band
Ability: Sap Sipper / Soundproof
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Head Charge
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge / Pursuit
- Megahorn

Bouffalant is a much better banded normal type, being able to dish out good damage, as well as being able to attack every turn, unlike Slaking. It also has good abilities in Sap Sipper, allowing it to wall most Grass types, as well as boost its already large attack stat, giving it scary damage outputs, or you can use Soundproof, which allows you to wall Chatot and check Aurorus if they are problems to your team. Speed is to outspeed max speed Adamant Kecleon.
Could you slash Return on Bouffalant? Its bulk is actually decent and it can use it to prevent being revenge killed easily. After even one Head Smash, Bouff becomes really prone to being picked off by any faster mon.
 
Don't use this:

Bellossom @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Solar Beam
- Dazzling Gleam
- Sludge Bomb

This thing is toooo common on sun teams. It has mediocre offenses at best, and has nothing that victreebel doesn't

Use this instead:

Victreebel @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Power Whip
- Knock Off
- Growth
- Sludge Bomb

Or this:

Victreebel @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: NaN Atk
- Weather Ball
- SolarBeam
- Sludge Bomb
- Growth

Both of these are better options. Better attack, special attack, speed, and dual STAB.
 
Tackling something in the OP (and I have no idea why this is even a thing tbh).

Don't use this:

Beheeyem @ Assault Vest
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 212 HP / 252 SpA / 44 Spe
Modest Nature
- Psychic / Psyshock
- Signal Beam
- Hidden Power Ground
- Shadow Ball

Why it's bad: Beheeyem is not very bulky, even by PU standards. 75 / 75 / 95 really isn't all that great. Its typing is also mediocre, and not well suited for an Assault Vest. And with that 40 base Speed, you will be taking a hit before attacking, limiting AV's effectiveness in the long run, especially with no recovery.

Instead, use this:

Beheeyem @ Choice Specs
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 212 HP / 252 SpA / 44 Spe
Modest Nature
- Psychic / Psyshock
- Signal Beam
- Hidden Power Ground / Shadow Ball
- Trick

Why it's better: Beheeyem is a wallbreaker, not a tank. Wallbreakers should be using offensive items. In this case, Choice Specs allows it to plow through many walls. It even has Trick to cripple the disproportionately high number of NFEs that PU has. Analytic is also a great ability, as its low speed gives it the boost quite often, as does the number of switches it can force due to Beheeyem's good coverage.

Or, use this:

Beheeyem @ Life Orb
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe (if Shadow Ball) or 1 Spe (if HP Ground)
- Trick Room
- Psychic / Psyshock
- Signal Beam
- Hidden Power Ground / Shadow Ball

Why this is also better: Trick Room turns Beheeyem's awful speed into a benefit, as it will often be able to sweep late game. It can also set it up for slow teammates. Note that this set will have to take a hit, but unlike AV, it only needs to take one to set up TR.

On that note, more people should read this. Yes, I know it was written for RU, but most of its points apply to all tiers.
 

Raiza

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World Defender
Don't use that:

Bastiodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Roar
- Metal Burst / Magic Coat

Why it's bad:

I'd say that Bastiodon got outclassed completely by new entry Probopass after the tier shift so he isn't really worth using anymore rip. The big nose below basically does the same thing but better.

Instead, use this:


Probopass @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 172 SpD / 84 Spe
Calm Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic / Thunder Wave
- Volt Switch
- Power Gem / Flash Cannon

Why it's better:

There is no reason to use Bastiodon over Probopass. New entry Probopass can choose between Toxic and Thunder Wave to fit better into your team's strategy, he gives you a slow Volt Switch to setup another pokémon of your team on the field with safety, he gives the team a pivot and he doesn't need to get played passively so much as Bastiodon that suffered a lot from Taunt users and setup sweepers, because he has more reliable STABs, his SpAtk is ok for a bulky pokémon like him(you can afford to move the Spe evs in SpAtk if you want) and has access to Volt Switch.
 
bumping this with something that gets waaaaay more usage than it should:

Don't use that:


Lapras @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump / Surf
- Ice Beam
- Freeze-Dry
- Heal Bell

Why it's bad:

I can see why tank Lapras would seem appealing: it has very good stats all around, a useful movepool, and a few decent resistances. However, it really isn't that effective in PU for several reasons. Its bulk is severely undermined by its typing, which while seemingly one of its strong points, is actually quite a hinderance, as it gives Lapras a Stealth Rock weakness (which makes its bulk a lot less impressive, as a lot of things it could ordinarily switch into quite well can easily 2HKO or 3HKO it with hazards up) and weaknesses to many common attacking types in PU, particularly to Electric, Fighting, and Grass, three of the most common attacking types in the tier. Its only resistances are to Water and Ice, which aren't all that impressive when you consider the fact that most Water and Ice types can hit Lapras super effectively. Notable examples include Regice's Thunderbolt and Focus Blast, Simipour's Grass Knot and Low Kick, Poliwrath's Focus Punch and Focus Blast, and Carracosta's Stone Edge. When you take all of this into account, Lapras can reliably switch into very few Pokemon in PU.

Instead, use this:


Regice @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Thunder Wave


Why it's better:
While nothing strictly outclasses Lapras at its role as its main problem is more that it is ineffective than it is outclassed, tank Regice is an example of a set that tries to do similar things to Lapras but actually succeeds at it. Its lack of a Water-typing may seem like a hinderance, but it actually lets it take on important Pokemon such as Rotom-F, Tangela, and Roselia that Lapras just loses to. Its Stealth Rock weakness isn't quite as big of a deal as it is for Lapras because its raw special bulk means that it can still do a decent job against what it needs to (though you should still probably run hazard removal with it).

Also to the 29% of you using AV Lapras: please don't
 
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MZ

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[11:07] @Magnemite: do like
[11:07] @Magnemite: wartortle or pikachu

Don't use this

008.gif

Wartortle @ Eviolite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- Toxic
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Beam

Wartortle is an awful spinner. It loses to every single spin blocker, has mediocre bulk and no offensive presence. Teams reliant on hazards always carry a spin blocker, and wartortle doesn't have a way to beat them, and lacks the incredible defenses of avalugg. Most offensive mons also carry coverage for poliwrath (energy ball ninetales, grass knot simipour, etc.) meaning that even if wartortle resists their primary STAB most mons carry offensive coverage for it.

Without this

008.gif

Wartortle @ Eviolite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Toxic
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Foresight

Foresight at least allows Wartortle to beat all spin blockers, so combined with a spdef spread for misdreavus and haunter, it's guaranteed to get off a spin unless taunted by misdreavus first.

Or just these

348.gif

Armaldo @ Leftovers
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic/X-Scissor/Stealth Rock

324.gif

Torkoal @ White Herb
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shell Smash
- Earth Power
- Fire Blast
- Rapid Spin

713.gif

Avalugg @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Avalanche
- Roar/Toxic
- Rapid Spin
- Recover

All of these are decent spinners thanks to different niches. Armaldo can cripple most spin blockers with a super effective knock off, set up its own stealth rock, and lure and cripple poliwrath with toxic. Torkoal can check fire types and kills every spin blocker after a smash, and Avalugg is very, very bulky and can wall most common attackers, although it does get spin blocked by Misdreavus and Gourgeist, and can be crippled by Haunter.
 
Okay upon further investigation, people on the PU ladder seem to have a bit of an unhealthy obsession with a... certain item.



Your Guide to Assault Vest in PU

Since soon after its introduction, Assault Vest is an item that has developed a bit of a reputation for being an item that newer players tend to slap on everything without much thought, when in reality it is actually only good on a select few Pokemon. Similar to Weakness Policy in higher tiers, PU is the tier with the fewest Pokemon that can actually make good use of Assault Vest, and have a reason to use it over another item: zero. For one reason or another, every Pokemon in PU is better off running another item than Assault Vest, yet it still sees significant usage on quite a few Pokemon. Let's go through some of the most common ones (this is just the 1630 stats; the 1500 stats are so bad that they're painful to look at) and why they shouldn't EVER be used:



Throh (Assault Vest 24.799%)

This is probably the least heinous of the list, but it's still pretty bad. While it does have a good physical movepool, running 4 attacking moves on it is a huge waste, as it only ever needs Knock Off and Storm Throw, while Ice Punch and Thunderpunch are niche options to hit specific targets. Not only does Throh depend on its Leftovers to not be worn down incredibly quickly, but its non-attacking options, especially Rest + Sleep Talk but also Taunt and Toxic are just way more valuable than more Special Defense, especially since that extra Special Defense doesn't make you that much bulkier because you get worn down so easily. While AV Throh isn't the worst set you could run, it's just limiting Throh's full potential for minimal benefit.



Armaldo (Assault Vest 19.036%)

This is less a case of "why shouldn't you use AV on this" and more of "why would you ever use AV on this". Like Throh, Rapid Spin Armaldo relies on its Leftovers to not be worn down so horribly quickly by Stealth Rock, as Armaldo's #1 priority is to remove it. Armaldo also relies on Toxic to not be a free switch to Poliwrath, but the main reason not to use AV on it is that there's just no reason to. Armaldo is not bulky, so it doesn't make sense to trade in an item that takes away much-needed longevity in exchange for pointless bulk. If you want to give up your Lefties on Armaldo, at least use Lum Berry, which lets you spin on Jumpluff and be better off against defensive Misdreavus. (by the way, this whole paragraph is talking about offensive Armaldo, defensive Armaldo is terrible and should never be used)



Ninetales (Assault Vest 11.820%)

Why would you ever take the best special sweeper in the tier and slap on an item that prevents it from being able to use Nasty Plot? It just doesn't make sense, and Ninetales's other viable sets rely on support moves even more, mainly Will-O-Wisp and Pain Split. This one is geniunely very puzzling to me, with most of this list I can at least see where people would be coming from, but i genuinely have no idea why you would ever use this.




Beheeyem (Assault Vest 17.456%)

Beheeyem's main niche in PU is to kill everything with ridiculously powerful Specs-boosted Analytic Psychics. Beheeyem's role in PU is not to take special attacks and retaliate with moderately powerful ones, that's just a huge waste of its potent wallbreaking potential. Not being Choice-locked is irrelevant too because everything you would hit with your coverage moves bar Probopass and Grumpig is something you need to hit on the switch to beat anyway, as Sneasel, Pawniard, and Mightyena are all faster than you. Just a waste of potential that has no reason to be used.



Stoutland (Assault Vest 9.392%)

This one is a lot like Beheeyem: Stoutland's niches are to rip through offense by being faster than everything with sand support and breaking through Ghost-types with its powerful CB Scrappy Return. Slapping AV on Stoutland is just throwing away most of its potential for no reason. You can't sweep as easily on sand, which makes you much, much less threatening, and if you really don't want to be Choice-locked just use Life Orb. You can't 2HKO defensive Misdreavus with unboosted Scrappy Return either, which removes the entire reason to use that set. Don't even think of using Intimidate either, it just doesn't work.



Dusknoir (Assault Vest 10.956%)

This, believe it or not, isn't even Dusknoir's worst commonly used set. Defensive Dusknoir is complete garbage for several reasons, and it should probably be covered it a separate post in this thread. Anyway, slapping AV on Dusknoir is just taking CB Dusknoir and making its biggest problem, which is that it's horribly weak even with a Choice Band, and making it just that much bigger of an issue. AV Dusknoir's Earthquake has a chance to not OHKO offensive Probopass from full health, and it can't OHKO Mr. Mime from full health with STAB fully invested Adamant Shadow Sneak, just to give you an idea of how pathetically weak it is. It's not even that tanky either because it gets worn down so easily. Just a terrible set that turns a decent niche mon into an awful one.



Aurorus (Assault Vest 22.857%)

By far Aurorus's best set is a wallbreaker set with Stealth Rock and Life Orb. What makes anyone think "Okay, I want to make my wallbreaker a lot weaker and unable to use the best move in the game which also happens to be its biggest niche, just so I can give the Pokemon with the worst defensive typing in the game a small boost to its Special Defense"? It just doesn't make sense, and the worst part about this is that most people who use AV Aurorus probably use max HP as well, which makes Aurorus almost completely useless against offense and makes it lose to some of the walls it should be trying to beat, like Pelipper.



Grumpig (Assault Vest 12.740%)

Grumpig relies a lot on its support movepool and passive recovery from Leftovers. By far Grumpig's most relevant set only runs one attacking move and relies on its unique combination of support moves to be effective. Assault Vest just throws all of that away, this time just to make an already very bulky Pokemon random extra bulk that it doesn't need in this slightest. Like with Ninetales, this one genuinely puzzles me.



Heatmor (Assault Vest 19.063%)

Yet another case of trying to take a frail wallbreaker and make it into a bulky attacker, but just throwing away all of your wallbreaking power and giving you a pointless boost to a stat that your wallbreaker doesn't need more of. Similarly to Aurorus, max HP is also the most common spread on this, which is just dumb and makes Heatmor so much worse at what it's supposed to do.



And finally, the granddaddy of them all, the infamous, the terrifying...


REGICE (Assault Vest 42.900%)

Just... why? Were 100 HP and 200 Special Defense not enough for you? Did you not like how Rock Polish Regice was too good of a sweeper and made your battles against low-ladder opponents too easy and one-sided? Do you love being worn down faster than just about everything in the tier? What about this Pokemon makes you think: "Hey, this Pokemon doesn't have enough special bulk, I have to throw away most of what makes it good in order to get it"? The set that makes Regice so good is one of the least commonly used, which just bothers me severely. If you're going to use this monstrosity, at least use max HP and Special Defense so you can do funny things like take 20% from Life Orb Raichu's Thunderbolt, because funny things like that are about all this set has going for it. I get that having a Pokemon that's almost as bulky as physically defensive Blissey in PU may seem appealing, but AV Regice is horrible for many reasons, and shouldn't get any usage at all, let alone account for almost half of Regice's usage.


Well, that took forever, but it will hopefully let new players see the error in their ways and therefore make the PU ladder a much better place. Assault Vest: together, we can find the cure.
 
Okay upon further investigation, people on the PU ladder seem to have a bit of an unhealth obsession with a... certain item.



Your Guide to Assault Vest in PU

Since soon after its introduction, Assault Vest is an item that has developed a bit of a reputation for being an item that newer players tend to slap on everything without much thought, when in reality it is actually only good on a select few Pokemon. Similar to Weakness Policy in higher tiers, PU is the tier with the fewest Pokemon that can actually make good use of Assault Vest, and have a reason to use it over another item: zero. For one reason or another, every Pokemon in PU is better off running another item than Assault Vest, yet it still sees significant usage on quite a few Pokemon. Let's go through some of the most common ones (this is just the 1630 stats; the 1500 stats are so bad that they're painful to look at) and why they shouldn't EVER be used:



Throh (Assault Vest 24.799%)

This is probably the least heinous of the list, but it's still pretty bad. While it does have a good physical movepool, running 4 attacking moves on it is a huge waste, as it only ever needs Knock Off and Storm Throw, while Ice Punch and Thunderpunch are niche options to hit specific targets. Not only does Throh depend on its Leftovers to not be worn down incredibly quickly, but its non-attacking options, especially Rest + Sleep Talk but also Taunt and Toxic are just way more valuable than more Special Defense, especially since that extra Special Defense doesn't make you that much bulkier because you get worn down so easily. While AV Throh isn't the worst set you could run, it's just limiting Throh's full potential for minimal benefit.



Armaldo (Assault Vest 19.036%)

This is less a case of "why shouldn't you use AV on this" and more of "why would you ever use AV on this". Like Throh, Rapid Spin Armaldo relies on its Leftovers to not be worn down so horribly quickly by Stealth Rock, as Armaldo's #1 priority is to remove it. Armaldo also relies on Toxic to not be a free switch to Poliwrath, but the main reason not to use AV on it is that there's just no reason to. Armaldo is not bulky, so it doesn't make sense to trade in an item that takes away much-needed longevity in exchange for pointless bulk. If you want to give up your Lefties on Armaldo, at least use Lum Berry, which lets you spin on Jumpluff and be better off against defensive Misdreavus. (by the way, this whole paragraph is talking about offensive Armaldo, defensive Armaldo is terrible and should never be used)



Ninetales (Assault Vest 11.820%)

Why would you ever take the best special sweeper in the tier and slap on an item that prevents it from being able to use Nasty Plot? It just doesn't make sense, and Ninetales's other viable sets rely on support moves even more, mainly Will-O-Wisp and Pain Split. This one is geniunely very puzzling to me, with most of this list I can at least see where people would be coming from, but i genuinely have no idea why you would ever use this.




Beheeyem (Assault Vest 17.456%)

Beheeyem's main niche in PU is to kill everything with ridiculously powerful Specs-boosted Analytic Psychics. Beheeyem's role in PU is not to take special attacks and retaliate with moderately powerful ones, that's just a huge waste of its potent wallbreaking potential. Not being Choice-locked is irrelevant too because everything you would hit with your coverage moves bar Probopass and Grumpig is something you need to hit on the switch to beat anyway, as Sneasel, Pawniard, and Mightyena are all faster than you. Just a waste of potential that has no reason to be used.



Stoutland (Assault Vest 9.392%)

This one is a lot like Beheeyem: Stoutland's niches are to rip through offense by being faster than everything with sand support and breaking through Ghost-types with its powerful CB Scrappy Return. Slapping AV on Stoutland is just throwing away most of its potential for no reason. You can't sweep as easily on sand, which makes you much, much less threatening, and if you really don't want to be Choice-locked just use Life Orb. You can't 2HKO defensive Misdreavus with unboosted Scrappy Return either, which removes the entire reason to use that set. Don't even think of using Intimidate either, it just doesn't work.



Dusknoir (Assault Vest 10.956%)

This, believe it or not, isn't even Dusknoir's worst commonly used set. Defensive Dusknoir is complete garbage for several reasons, and it should probably be covered it a separate post in this thread. Anyway, slapping AV on Dusknoir is just taking CB Dusknoir and making its biggest problem, which is that it's horribly weak even with a Choice Band, and making it just that much bigger of an issue. AV Dusknoir's Earthquake has a chance to not OHKO offensive Probopass from full health, and it can't OHKO Mr. Mime from full health with STAB fully invested Adamant Shadow Sneak, just to give you an idea of how pathetically weak it is. It's not even that tanky either because it gets worn down so easily. Just a terrible set that turns a decent niche mon into an awful one.



Aurorus (Assault Vest 22.857%)

By far Aurorus's best set is a wallbreaker set with Stealth Rock and Life Orb. What makes anyone think "Okay, I want to make my wallbreaker a lot weaker and unable to use the best move in the game which also happens to be its biggest niche, just so I can give the Pokemon with the worst defensive typing in the game a small boost to its Special Defense"? It just doesn't make sense, and the worst part about this is that most people who use AV Aurorus probably use max HP as well, which makes Aurorus almost completely useless against offense and makes it lose to some of the walls it should be trying to beat, like Pelipper.



Grumpig (Assault Vest 12.740%)

Grumpig relies a lot on its support movepool and passive recovery from Leftovers. By far Grumpig's most relevant set only runs one attacking move and relies on its unique combination of support moves to be effective. Assault Vest just throws all of that away, this time just to make an already very bulky Pokemon random extra bulk that it doesn't need in this slightest. Like with Ninetales, this one genuinely puzzles me.



Heatmor (Assault Vest 19.063%)

Yet another case of trying to take a frail wallbreaker and make it into a bulky attacker, but just throwing away all of your wallbreaking power and giving you a pointless boost to a stat that your wallbreaker doesn't need more of. Similarly to Aurorus, max HP is also the most common spread on this, which is just dumb and makes Heatmor so much worse at what it's supposed to do.



And finally, the granddaddy of them all, the infamous, the terrifying...


REGICE (Assault Vest 42.900%)

Just... why? Were 100 HP and 200 Special Defense not enough for you? Did you not like how Rock Polish Regice was too good of a sweeper and made your battles against low-ladder opponents too easy and one-sided? Do you love being worn down faster than just about everything in the tier? What about this Pokemon makes you think: "Hey, this Pokemon doesn't have enough special bulk, I have to throw away most of what makes it good in order to get it"? The set that makes Regice so good is one of the least commonly used, which just bothers me severely. If you're going to use this monstrosity, at least use max HP and Special Defense so you can do funny things like take 20% from Life Orb Raichu's Thunderbolt, because funny things like that are about all this set has going for it. I get that having a Pokemon that's almost as bulky as physically defensive Blissey in PU may seem appealing, but AV Regice is horrible for many reasons, and shouldn't get any usage at all, let alone account for almost half of Regice's usage.


Well, that took forever, but it will hopefully let new players see the error in their ways and therefore make the PU ladder a much better place. Assault Vest: together, we can find the cure.
What was that pic in the spoiler suppose to mean?

Plus make sure to mention BlameTruth, dude uses AV Kricketune, and is pretty popular, so he helps spread the venom of unviable AV mons. Also, I have a question, what makes a good Assault Vest user? Good general bulk?
 
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What was that pic in the spoiler suppose to mean?

Plus make sure to mention BlameTruth, dude uses AV Kricketune, and is pretty popular, so he helps spread the venom of unviable AV mons. Also, I have a question, what makes a good Assault Vest user? Good general bulk?
The picture was showing that control + f assault vest gave 61 results

A good AV user has good natural bulk, doesn't rely on support moves at all, has good special resistances, and is used more for its bulk than its power. Examples from other tiers include AV Hariyama, AV Slowking, and AV Azumarill. Also I didn't mention blametruth because I didn't want to call out anyone in my post, no matter how bad of an influence they can be.
 

Twix

jicama
is a Contributor Alumnus
Don't Use That:



Whiscash @ Life Orb
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Substitute
- Earthquake

Why It's Bad:
This fat whale thing may seem like a cool mon when it comes to a water type that is always smiling and can set up Dragon Dances and sweep. Although it has a pretty solid typing, it's C rank for a reason. Even with a Jolly nature it only hits 240, which leaves it susceptible to faster mons before a dragon dance, and scarfers after. Even with a huge 110 HP stat, it wears down easily to Life Orb damage, Substitute placement and opposing moves. It takes work to successfully set it up and even so, it's still pretty weak until it has 2 or more dragon dances set up.

Instead, Use This:



Carracosta @ Life Orb
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant/Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Waterfall/Zen Headbutt
- Stone Edge
- Aqua Jet

Why it's Better: Although Carracosta has more additional weaknesses, it is able to do more damage, and set up quicker. It also has the added effect of priority, superior physical bulk and the ability solid rock which can cut down on the damage it receives. Carracosta has a 346 attack stat with adamant compared to Whiscash's 280; which can mean a lot when it comes to killing switch-ins and threats. Even though whiscash is faster, carra can get to +2 on both speed and attack in the time it takes whiscash to get +1 on those stats.
 
Don't use that:


Persian @ Life Orb/Silk Scarf
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Return
- U-Turn
- Knock Off

Why not?
Fake out persian is completely outclassed by purugly, for reasons I'll explain. 64% of persians run this set, according to the usage statistics.


Instead, use this:


Purugly @ Life Orb/Silk Scarf
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Return
- U-Turn
- Knock Off/Sucker Punch

Why?
Purugly has a much higher attack stat than persian, base 82 compared to persian's 70. They both have similar defensive stats, and the only area where persian out-stats purugly and it matters is in speed. Persian's 115 base speed allows it to speed tie with floatzel and sneasel, and outspeed swoobat, pokemon that purugly is outsped by with its 112 base speed. But outspeeding these three pokemon does not make up for persian's loss in power(persian's technician fake out is only slightly stronger than purugly's, every other attack is weaker). Purugly learns every move that persian uses on its fake out set, and also gets access to sucker punch, giving purugly a valuable second form of priority. But the most important reason for purugly outclassing persian is that purugly can use the ability defiant. Defiant means that purugly gets a +2 boost when the opponent defogs, which helps keep hazards on the field. Defiant also gives purugly a +2 boost when it is affected by sticky web, and a +1 boost against intimidate users, preventing them from switching in. Overall, more power and access to defiant allows purugly to outclass fake out persian.


Or this, if you want to use persian:


Persian @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Round
- Shock Wave/Water Pulse
- Hidden Power Fighting/Hidden Power Ground/Hidden Power Ghost/Hidden Power Dark

Persian's niche is as a nasty plot sweeper. It can pull this set off with its high speed(for PU) and good coverage. Round is STAB, and has the same base power as hyper voice after technician but with more PP. Hidden power fighting is good for pokemon like regice, avalugg, piloswine, lickilicky, and probopass, while ground allows you to achieve similar coverage, but lets you speed tie sneasel and floatzel(which outspeed if you run the 30 speed IVs necessary for HP fighting), as well as hitting ninetales harder. Hidden power ghost/dark can be used to hit ghost types hard at +2, KOing many of them. The only important exception to hidden power dark is that it doesn't drop speed IVs like ghost, but doesn't hit carbink. Shock wave hits pokemon like poliwrath and carracosta. Water pulse can be used with the last spot to hit pokemon like carbink and golem.
 
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Don't Use This:

Pikachu @ Light Ball
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Volt Tackle
- Brick Break
- Knock Off
- Fake Out

Or This:

Pikachu @ Light Ball
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice
- Grass Knot
- Surf

Why It's Bad:
While Pikachu may seem like a cool powerhouse in PU due to Light Ball, it just doesn't offer anything else that prevents it from being outclassed by all other Electric-types. Its low defenses make Goomy look bulky and its low 90 speed for an offensive electric type just isn't cutting it, either. While it may offer more power than Raichu, that power just isn't enough to be a wallbreaker (it can't even OHKO Sneasel of all things).

Instead, Use One of These:


Why they're Better: Simply put, all of these mons have something that makes them worth using as your offensive Electric-type. Raichu is still frail, but at least it has some bulk and is also faster than Pikachu. It still has usable offense, the ability to check Electric-types and hit Ground-types with its coverage and Volt Switch, but it can choose the item it wants, allowing you to slap a Life Orb on it for some power. Meanwhile Rotom-F offers BoltBeam coverage, Trick, and even Pain Split to allow it to abuse SubSplit sets while still having Volt Switch for scarf sets. Zebstrika is also a viable choice if you want to have Fire coverage and something to absorb Sleep Powder and predicted grass attacks if running Sap Sipper while also being faster than Pikachu. Luxray may be slow, but its power and BoltBeam coverage in its CB set along with Intimidate makes it a good physical Electric-type. Finally, Electabuzz can use Eviolite to give it some bulk and can use Focus Blast to smack stuff like Piloswine or Lickilicky, and is also faster than Pikachu.
 

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