XY OU Analysis Reservation Index - READ CAREFULLY (MAKING A NEW THREAD)

[PISTOLERO]

Here's a tl;dr explaining why Heliolisk should not get an analysis:

Heliolisk

Heliolisk has already been rejected once in the past, and for good reason. It's just an overall very mediocre Pokemon. Its physical bulk is awful to the point that even resisted hits do a ton of damage (i.e. Talonflame's CB Brave Bird has a small chance to OHKO after only Stealth Rock damage, while SD Talonflame's +2 Brave Bird is an outright OHKO), and its special bulk isn't anything special either. Its power isn't too impressive either; Life Orb Heliolisk hardly has any chance to 2HKO SpD Heatran with a super effective Surf after Stealth Rock, for instance. It also struggles to get by a whole host of special tanks and walls such as the blobs, Mega Venusaur, and Latias, unless it runs a specific Hidden Power type (which is struggles to find room for when it's also trying to run Thunderbolt/Surf/Grass Knot/Focus Blast/Volt Switch).

More than anything, it's just so overshadowed by the amazing Thundurus that there's little reason to use it. Its only real advantages are a lack of a Stealth Rock weakness and a Water immunity or an extra power boost in Sun via Solar Power. The Stealth Rock neutrality isn't even that big of a deal. Stealth Rock is easier to remove than ever thanks to Excadrill and the unblockable Defog, and it's not like Heliolisk enjoys losing 1/8 of its health switching in either (not to mention it's vulnerable to Spikes). Its terrible bulk means it's not surviving many attacks anyway even with the extra health.

Dry Skin is useful and all, but you're really blowing the ability to switch into Water attacks out of proportion since many common users of those moves are really risky switch-ins. For instance, Gyarados is generally going to Sub or DD as you switch in and KO the next turn with Earthquake, Greninja outspeeds and 2HKOs if you switch into anything bar Hydro Pump, Azumarill pulverizes you with Play Rough or Superpower, Cloyster just Shell Smashes on the switch and then eats you alive, and Keldeo wins if you switch in on Secret Sword, Calm Mind, or Expert Belt Icy Wind. Besides switching in easily on Rotom-W and checking BellyJet Azumarill, Thundurus can take on pretty much all the Water-types Heliolisk can even more easily.

Solar Power isn't a huge advantage either. Heliolisk doesn't really offer much to Sun teams synergy wise, and while it's very powerful with a Solar Power boost and Choice Specs, Sun teams already have huge amounts of power with Fire spam from Pokemon like Victini. Sun teams are already hard enough to use since Ninetales sucks and Charizard Y's Sun doesn't last that long (not to mention it's more interested in abusing the Sun itself rather than supporting teammates), so it's not a huge niche even then.

Meanwhile, Thundurus has a lot of significant advantages over Heliolisk. Its extra 2 base Spe points are pretty important since they let it outpace Latios, Latias, Espeon, and Gengar, each of which can outspeed and deal a ton of damage to Heliolisk, if not outright OHKO. Thundurus has almost identical special bulk while also having significantly higher physical bulk, which lets it check things like Talonflame and Mega Pinsir much more easily (for instance, Sharp Beak Talonflame's +2 Brave Bird can't OHKO Thundurus from full health, while its +2 Brave Bird with no boosting item almost always OHKOs Heliolisk). Thundurus also has not only a higher SpA stat, but a higher Atk stat as well, letting it attack effectively from both sides of the offensive spectrum. This adds a whole new dimension to Thundurus that Heliolisk doesn't have, and it gives Thundurus a solid unpredictability factor. While it has a pretty similar special movepool to Heliolisk, Thundurus has the option of running Nasty Plot to muscle its way past bulky Pokemon that might otherwise wall it, while Heliolisk has no good boosting moves whatsoever. Thundurus also has a plenty wide enough physical movepool to make good use of mixed and physical sets, and Defiant makes it a solid Defog deterrent and a terrifying physical sweeper once it gets the boost. Prankster gives Thundurus extra utility on its special sets as well, letting it stop any non-immune sweeper with priority Thunder Wave or stop any status moves with Taunt, regardless of the opponent's speed (mainly looking at Deoxys-S here).

So to sum up, Heliolisk is very frail, not very powerful, has coverage issues, and overall just faces too much competition from Thundurus (and that's still ignoring other offensive Electric-type Pokemon that give it competition). There's a reason it's unranked in the viability thread. It's just too outclassed and decisively mediocre to be a good choice in OU.

Thanks and have a nice day.

Thats fair enough :) I know that it is frail etc and that Thundurus is better but I like Heliolisk and I thoroughly dislike Thundurus in this generation (although this probably has something to do with the swagger sets more than anything else), and I knew it was a long shot to ask for Heliolisk. Hopefully when the UU contributions begin I can reserve Heliolisk and Mienshao :) -speaking of which, now that UU isnt beta anymore, when will the analysis writing begin?

 

[The Village Idiot]

When UU starts I'm reserving Ninjask for sure.

Also, can I claim Hawlucha, seeing as it's now BL? Or is Magnemite claiming him?

 

[Magnemite]

Actually, sure, I'll take Hawlucha.

As a side note, it will be dropped back down to UU for a short time for testing, but it was really broken, so it should go back up to BL. Therefore, we shouldn't reject Hawlucha immediately once it goes back to UU, because it won't be staying there for long. In any case, I may wait until we know for certain that it's staying BL before I post the skeleton so I don't waste a bunch of hard work.

 

[TheManlyLadybug]

If DarkSlay doesn't respond within 24 hours, I would like to take over Landorus-T. I have a good amount of experience with it, as I use it in many of my teams.

Someone notify me if and when I can take over the analysis, or if DarkSlay will still work on it.

 

[KairosKairen]

Has anyone done a jumpluff? it has access to sleep powder and sword dance.

 

[TheManlyLadybug]

Has anyone done a jumpluff? it has access to sleep powder and sword dance.

Jumpluff has horrible Attack and horrible bulk, although admittedly, it reaches a pretty good speed tier. The SD set was only viable in NU, and it required a Flying Gem, which is impossible to get in XY. If you want a Pokemon with Sleep Powder and Swords Dance, use Breloom.

Jumpluff can fill a small but unique niche as a fast annoyer with Sleep Powder, Encore, Leech Seed, and U-Turn, but really, if you want an annoyer, use Klefki or Sableye or something, they have better bulk, better movepools, better typing, no Stealth Rock weakness, and are generally more useful in battle.

Jumpluff's Stealth Rock weakness, lackluster stats, decent but not great movepool, and subpar typing severely limit its ability to perform well in the rough OU metagame.

I personally will try out a general annoyer set myself, but if you're gonna get it past QC, you better have some good reasons, my friend.

 

[Colonel M]

Jumpluff only has Sleep Powder over Whimiscott. And like one or two small things that barely matter.

In most cases Jumpluff is simply outclassed.

 

[KairosKairen]

Jumpluff only has Sleep Powder over Whimiscott. And like one or two small things that barely matter.

In most cases Jumpluff is simply outclassed.

Oh. i thought infiltrator to deal with the new sub setter/passers (and gliscor)was neat though. and the ability to set up on the unsuspected with SD and acrobatics.
it just dose not seem that bad with 350 and still had an ou build last gen.

 

[KairosKairen]

Jumpluff has horrible Attack and horrible bulk, although admittedly, it reaches a pretty good speed tier. The SD set was only viable in NU, and it required a Flying Gem, which is impossible to get in XY. If you want a Pokemon with Sleep Powder and Swords Dance, use Breloom.

Jumpluff can fill a small but unique niche as a fast annoyer with Sleep Powder, Encore, Leech Seed, and U-Turn, but really, if you want an annoyer, use Klefki or Sableye or something, they have better bulk, better movepools, better typing, no Stealth Rock weakness, and are generally more useful in battle.

Jumpluff's Stealth Rock weakness, lackluster stats, decent but not great movepool, and subpar typing severely limit its ability to perform well in the rough OU metagame.

I personally will try out a general annoyer set myself, but if you're gonna get it past QC, you better have some good reasons, my friend.

Whoa sorry its not that i want it to get past qc I was just curious if it was mentioned since it had an ou build including Sd last gen and even an uber build

 

[trc]

While this may seem ridiculous, I actually advocate Alomomola. I have used it quite a bit and even if Mirror Coat becomes widely known about, Alomomola can still utilize it. It can also heal itself while also using Wish with Regenerator. It's pretty cool. The only downside is spelling its name =/

 

[Arkian]

Politoed is up :)

 

[KairosKairen]

Possibly malamar? getting bulk out after super power and above average hp seems like a good niche even if everyone knows its gunna use superpower.
oh also topsy turvey to ruin sd and cm users

 

[PISTOLERO]

I'm going to try again and say that Spiritomb deserves an analysis for OU this generation. It has what I think is a nice niche in what it does, and please don't say "outclassed by Sableye" because it really really isn't (it's like comparing apples and oranges). If I need to elaborate on why I think Spiritomb is solid I'd be happy to :)

 

[Minus]

Possibly malamar? getting bulk out after super power and above average hp seems like a good niche even if everyone knows its gunna use superpower.
oh also topsy turvey to ruin sd and cm users

Malamar already had an analysis, but was rejected soon afterwards. Check it out for more information!

I'm going to try again and say that Spiritomb deserves an analysis for OU this generation. It has what I think is a nice niche in what it does, and please don't say "outclassed by Sableye" because it really really isn't (it's like comparing apples and oranges). If I need to elaborate on why I think Spiritomb is solid I'd be happy to :)

Why not elaborate now?

 

[LeekSlap/ChewyDonuts]

I'd like to make a analysis for Wigglytuff and here is why:

The ability Competitive(special counterpart to Defiant) is only usable by Wigglytuff and Meowstic-F as the others(Milotic and Gothitelle) have other niches(Marvel Scale and Shadow Tag respectively). What Wigglytuff has over Meowstic-F is better coverage. Wigglytuff can switch into a Mandibuzz when it uses Defog and hit it hard with Dazzling Gleam. Wigglytuff can switch into a fresh Sticky Web from a Bug type and do serious damage with Fire Blast. Wigglytuff is also one of the few normal types with a resist to Dark too(basically the Wigglytuff line and Meloetta-Pirouette). Wigglytuff also has a gigantic HP and learns Wish, Heal Bell, and plenty of other support moves. Wigglytuff also got 15 more special attack to its previous 70 and additional Fairy typing which makes it so that it has no real counters, like Hydreigon! He is incredibly rare in OU, but at least he gets play! He can run Counter, because of his low defense and awesome HP. Being a normal type, Wigglytuff gets an insane movepool. But Wigglytuff is not without its flaws. Wigglytuff heavily relies on Competitive to even be an offensive threat(if you are not running Charge Beam which is its only stat-booster), unlike Bisharp which already has great attack. Wigglytuff has mediocre stats and faces harsh competion when running a support set, even in NU! All in all, Wigglytuff is a niche Pokemon that deserves a mention in the stat based tier that is OU.

Thanks for reading and have a nice day :)

 

[ColtCababa]

Wigglytuff is not viable in OU. Literally, it's only niche would be taking advantage of situational moves and Abilities that the opponent may or may not have, as it simply doesn't hit hard enough without a boost. Furthermore, it's severely outclassed in a support role by Chansey and Sylveon for instance, and has relatively meager stats. Bisharp, a Pokemon with the aforementioned niche, at least has Swords Dance to boost it's Attack manually, and can take on threats like Aegislash, whilst having a great Atk stat and dual STABs.

Come to think of it, I wonder why even Milotic is allowed an analysis if the same niche is it's only viable role.

 

[The Village Idiot]

Wigglytuff's only good stat is HP, and in support it's outclassed by Blissey, Clefable, Chansey, and Sylveon.

 

[Minus]

I'd like to make a analysis for Wigglytuff and here is why:

The ability Competitive(special counterpart to Defiant) is only usable by Wigglytuff and Meowstic-F as the others(Milotic and Gothitelle) have other niches(Marvel Scale and Shadow Tag respectively). What Wigglytuff has over Meowstic-F is better coverage. Wigglytuff can switch into a Mandibuzz when it uses Defog and hit it hard with Dazzling Gleam. Wigglytuff can switch into a fresh Sticky Web from a Bug type and do serious damage with Fire Blast. Wigglytuff is also one of the few normal types with a resist to Dark too(basically the Wigglytuff line and Meloetta-Pirouette). Wigglytuff also has a gigantic HP and learns Wish, Heal Bell, and plenty of other support moves. Wigglytuff also got 15 more special attack to its previous 70 and additional Fairy typing which makes it so that it has no real counters, like Hydreigon! He is incredibly rare in OU, but at least he gets play! He can run Counter, because of his low defense and awesome HP. Being a normal type, Wigglytuff gets an insane movepool. But Wigglytuff is not without its flaws. Wigglytuff heavily relies on Competitive to even be an offensive threat(if you are not running Charge Beam which is its only stat-booster), unlike Bisharp which already has great attack. Wigglytuff has mediocre stats and faces harsh competion when running a support set, even in NU! All in all, Wigglytuff is a niche Pokemon that deserves a mention in the stat based tier that is OU.

Thanks for reading and have a nice day :)

Pretty much what was said above. Someone else made the exact same argument as you did a page or two ago. Simply type "Wigglytuff" into the search bar and you can see that it has been heavily discussed and even rejected.

Have a nice day too! =D

 

[LightningLuxray]

Wigglytuff is not viable in OU. Literally, it's only niche would be taking advantage of situational moves and Abilities that the opponent may it may not have, as it simply doesn't hit hard enough without a boost. Furthermore, it's severely outclassed in a support role by Chansey and Sylveon for instance, and has relatively meager stats. Bisharp, a Pokemon with the aforementioned niche, at least has Swords Dance to boost it's Attack manually, and can take on threats like Aegislash, whilst having a great Atk stat and dual STABs.

Come to think of it, I wonder why even Milotic is allowed an analysis if the same niche is it's only viable role.

Milotic's stats outclass Wigglytuff outside of HP. It also has decent coverage moves, as well as nice defense stats, meaning it can take a hit. I've never actually used one, but QC has found it viable enough for an analysis, so I'll take their word for it.

 

[ColtCababa]

A Pokemon only having one set in its analysis doesn't mean it isn't worth one. Milotic is very underrated, and can perform very well, given a substantial amount of support.

Milotic's stats outclass Wigglytuff outside of HP. It also has decent coverage moves, as well as nice defense stats, meaning it can take a hit. I've never actually used one, but QC has found it viable enough for an analysis, so I'll take their word for it.

Still, its niche seems too situational to be worth it's time. While it has decent defensive stats, it's outclassed as a bulky Water-type, and can only be relatively powerful under specific circumstances.

 

[LeekSlap/ChewyDonuts]

OK, so not Wigglytuff :( How about Accelgor?

I know what you are thinking: Accelgor is bad. But one move, just one makes Accelgor awesome. That move is GUARD SPLIT. Look at Accelgor's defense: they suck and that is what makes Guard Split so good(cause' if you don't know it averages out defenses between the target and the user.). In fact, Accelgor is the only pokemon that can use Guard Split well. You can also have max HP and Max SAtk because of its hidden ability Unburden. Unburden doubles speed after using/breaking/losing and item. In this case, the item would be the Bug Gem or Petaya Berry. So after setting all of this up, Accelgor has Uber stats and it doesn't take much setup. It's crazy, I know. The basic set would be Guard Split, Bug Buzz, Focus Blast, and the last move would be between Sludge Bomb, Energy Ball, and Hidden Power.

This one is A MUST for an analysis.

 

[ColtCababa]

I won't question QC, but I do believe it's important that the forenamed qualities be taken into account with Milotic's viability.

 

[LeekSlap/ChewyDonuts]

Some notes for Accelgor:
-Accelgor outspeeds a max speed Deoxys-S after Unburden activates, even with no EVs on speed.
-WAIT WHAT! WHO TOOK HIM FROM ME! lol

 

[epikkyogre78]

Spiritomb isn't outclassed by Sableye; it's outclassed by Aegislash.

Aegislash has much better stats in every category but Speed, which is irrelevant as Aegislash gets Shadow Sneak. Although it has 3 more weaknesses than Spiritomb, it makes up for it with its numerous resistances. Aegislash can run multiple effective sets, including SubToxic, SD, mixed wallbreaker, and Autotomize, while in OU, Spiritomb would most likely be restricted to defensive sets, which still receives competion from the previously mentioned SubToxic Aegislash, Mandibuzz, Sableye, and Mega Banette, among others. Aegislash has better typing, movepool, müçh better stats,

As for other possible Spiritomb sets besides the defensive one, a mono attacker set with Dark Pulse, CM, and RestTalk is done better by CroCune, and a Choice Band trapping set is done better by Tyranitar or Scizor. Besides, Spiritomb's Attack is too low to warrant a CB set in OU, maybe wait till XY RU rolls around. Perhaps if you find something incredibly unique that separates the defensive set from its competition, it'll be enough to get past the QC team(this is unlikely), but otherwise, Spiritomb just can't cut it in OU. Sorry

 

[ColtCababa]

They've already aknowledged most of what you set, and yet none rejected Milotic. I recommend you look here to see their discussion regarding it.

Alright. Basically, it fills the role of threatening Defoggers and Intimidators. Sticky Web is still obscure, and King's Shield's stat drop is out of the question. That alone is limited to Scizor, Lati@s, Mandibuzz, Skarmory, Zapdos, Mew, Gyarados, Landorus-T, Mawile in base form, and Mega Manectric. Zapdos and Mega Manectric still threaten it, however, and if the opponent happens to carry Galvantula, the top Sticky Webber, it also threatens it. To make the most out of Milotic's effectiveness, the opponent must carry these moves/Ability. It also requires that the opponent willingly use these while aware of Milotic's presence. If Milotic fails to obtain a boost at all, many other Water-types have greater offensive capability and are usually superior. I don't recall that some of these points have been brought up in Milotic's thread.