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Team Fortress 2 - The Official Discussion Thread
- Thread starter McLovinn
- Start date
in on dis as ClickyPen
primarily i am a medic but i do love my sasha (though i'm pretty sure i'm a terrible heavy :/). i'm trying to get into pyro as well but goddammit my friends are all MEDIC MEDIC MEDIC and no one else switches so i get to be medic. i was kinda pissed, i was in this great dustbowl game and only made it to 8k heals :( SO CLOSE. though i'm not really interested in the kritzkrieg/saw thing because well, crit ubers are much more limited in their use. i may try them out from time to time though, but mostly i prefer just keeping people alive/invuln'd.
i usually play mid-afternoon/late night est, since most of my work shifts are closing time.
primarily i am a medic but i do love my sasha (though i'm pretty sure i'm a terrible heavy :/). i'm trying to get into pyro as well but goddammit my friends are all MEDIC MEDIC MEDIC and no one else switches so i get to be medic. i was kinda pissed, i was in this great dustbowl game and only made it to 8k heals :( SO CLOSE. though i'm not really interested in the kritzkrieg/saw thing because well, crit ubers are much more limited in their use. i may try them out from time to time though, but mostly i prefer just keeping people alive/invuln'd.
i usually play mid-afternoon/late night est, since most of my work shifts are closing time.
steelicks, whats your steam account name? i get a lot of requests and I couldn't tell who you were among them >_<
I dunno if any of you want to add me. You probably won't see anything interesting, I play almost exclusively on the 4chan Party Van which you probably won't like if you like Team Fortress 2.
Anyway, regarding the actual game. I just got a chance to play around with the Pyro for the first time since the update (I spent the last several weeks having fun with sentries and the Pyro's inability to take them out) and I have to say that he seems a lot more balanced now. Even if you ignore all of the new weapons, the addition of the compressed air burst and the removal of damage dropoff makes the Pyro a usable option for competitive play; he can actually go head to head against Soldiers and Demomen (two of the most common combat classes in competitive play) and can take out 125 HP enemies more easily. The compressed air burst also is useful for the knockback, I've found; I've had some success in knocking angry-looking Heavies into the drink on 2fort which is good enough for me. I'm a little disappointed that it doesn't offer any self-propulsion, though, and it seems like there are a lot of things that will be restricted to the demoman/soldier/scout tier. (Is it any coincidence that they happen to be the best classes in the game?)
The backburner is also quite interesting. Probably the biggest bonus is the HP boost (having more HP than the soldier while being one of the faster classes in the game is REALLY nice), but the 100% crit rate from behind also makes it harder for Scouts to run in and do damage and then run out since if you lick them in the behind with the backburner they're not going to be able to make it to a health pack.
Another thing I thought was interesting about the last update was the way that Valve introduced a new Soldier nerf without seeing how the Pyro's compressed air burst would affect balance. It's not a huge deal though since the nerf doesn't hurt the Soldier too much; the game is actually pretty forgiving in what it calls a rocket jump so you can use offensive "rocket jumps" the same way that you'd use rockets before. For example, if you jump and fire a rocket at your feet and the rocket impacts a Scout instead of hitting the ground, even though the explosion was point blank the game will still register that as a rocket jump and give you reduced damage. Actually, I've found the increase in damage to be almost helpful in some situations; it certainly makes grinding for uber smoother.
Anyway, regarding the actual game. I just got a chance to play around with the Pyro for the first time since the update (I spent the last several weeks having fun with sentries and the Pyro's inability to take them out) and I have to say that he seems a lot more balanced now. Even if you ignore all of the new weapons, the addition of the compressed air burst and the removal of damage dropoff makes the Pyro a usable option for competitive play; he can actually go head to head against Soldiers and Demomen (two of the most common combat classes in competitive play) and can take out 125 HP enemies more easily. The compressed air burst also is useful for the knockback, I've found; I've had some success in knocking angry-looking Heavies into the drink on 2fort which is good enough for me. I'm a little disappointed that it doesn't offer any self-propulsion, though, and it seems like there are a lot of things that will be restricted to the demoman/soldier/scout tier. (Is it any coincidence that they happen to be the best classes in the game?)
The backburner is also quite interesting. Probably the biggest bonus is the HP boost (having more HP than the soldier while being one of the faster classes in the game is REALLY nice), but the 100% crit rate from behind also makes it harder for Scouts to run in and do damage and then run out since if you lick them in the behind with the backburner they're not going to be able to make it to a health pack.
Another thing I thought was interesting about the last update was the way that Valve introduced a new Soldier nerf without seeing how the Pyro's compressed air burst would affect balance. It's not a huge deal though since the nerf doesn't hurt the Soldier too much; the game is actually pretty forgiving in what it calls a rocket jump so you can use offensive "rocket jumps" the same way that you'd use rockets before. For example, if you jump and fire a rocket at your feet and the rocket impacts a Scout instead of hitting the ground, even though the explosion was point blank the game will still register that as a rocket jump and give you reduced damage. Actually, I've found the increase in damage to be almost helpful in some situations; it certainly makes grinding for uber smoother.
I'm really glad that they took the pryo as their first class to fix. The new weapons and changes to the original are very welcome. The pryo now has become a more competitive class thanks to it. I play in a league and you never saw pryos in competive play, but now you might.
I wanna try and catch a game with you guys sometime. It'll be fun to get a whole bunch of smogners together >:)
I wanna try and catch a game with you guys sometime. It'll be fun to get a whole bunch of smogners together >:)
Well, Valve added a tiny bit of damage dropoff to the flamethrower in yesterday's update, so I'm glad that they were willing to debuff a little after seeing how the update affected gameplay.
Heavy will be the next class to get weapons.
Heavy will be the next class to get weapons.
As much as I'm a terrible heavy, I'm reeeeeeeeally excited to see what valve does with dear sasha. iirc the focus is to make the heavy better without a medic, and since this is the situation i deal with mostly i am quite anxious!
Prediction: The new mini-gun's name will be.... Tasha ;P
I'm actually disappointed to say the least. I think the class(es) that needs another good buff would be either the Scout or the Spy. But hey, I'm not Valve and I don't call the shots. Though the idea that giving a heavy a role without the Medic does seem promising.
I'm actually disappointed to say the least. I think the class(es) that needs another good buff would be either the Scout or the Spy. But hey, I'm not Valve and I don't call the shots. Though the idea that giving a heavy a role without the Medic does seem promising.
ugh true. the worse will be snipers. entire servers full of snipers is gonna be terrible.
is there any news about which Meet the Class video is next?
Oh right and the Pyro. I forgot that that was never released. I saw the one by Team Roomba or whoever.
ya I knew which ones were released, just wondering which one was next.
Haha Team Roomba cracks me up; the griefing jeopardy game was soo hilarous and their pryo video was well made as well
Xyra I dont understand that post?
Also Im gonna add all the smogoners on this page now and hopefully try and organize a game or two? Seems like there's maybe five or 6 of us, small games can be fun.
edit: also sniper won't be that terrible, there just won't be any capping, so games could be longer or shorter. The engie is a different story though. Sentries are immoile so the only chance of gameplay progressing is if a bunch of engies forgo sentries and rush in with pistol and shotguns, but they'll surely get blown apart by the enemies sentries -_-
edit again: I created a smogon group called Smogon on steam. I invited everyone I've got added, but I couldn't find a lot of people itt so just seek it out. Also scheduled an event for us all to get together, it's on July 12th at 8:00 PM GMT. Hopefully some people will show up, but I'm worried that's too soon and some people might miss it.
Also Im gonna add all the smogoners on this page now and hopefully try and organize a game or two? Seems like there's maybe five or 6 of us, small games can be fun.
edit: also sniper won't be that terrible, there just won't be any capping, so games could be longer or shorter. The engie is a different story though. Sentries are immoile so the only chance of gameplay progressing is if a bunch of engies forgo sentries and rush in with pistol and shotguns, but they'll surely get blown apart by the enemies sentries -_-
edit again: I created a smogon group called Smogon on steam. I invited everyone I've got added, but I couldn't find a lot of people itt so just seek it out. Also scheduled an event for us all to get together, it's on July 12th at 8:00 PM GMT. Hopefully some people will show up, but I'm worried that's too soon and some people might miss it.
I unlocked the flare gun last night and was ready to start creating artwork on the 2fort battlements until I find out that THEY JUST TOOK OUT THE HANGING FLARES GLITCH IN YESTERDAY'S UPDATE AUGH
ya sounds good Stoo, but it might be a little early. Lets shoot for another time maybe?
Really? That glitch was funny to masslag people.
Well, at least the retarded Spy dance is still working. Crouching+looking up+holding the disguise kit=what have I done?
There's also a glitch, if you call for a medic at the end of your taunt and then look up, you'll see the medic bubble above your head.
Yeah matty nobody was on except for firestorm who was about to leave so :/
Anyone else interested want to suggest a time they're available? Please keep in mind time zones, school and work whatever for other.
Also I have decided, in anticipation of what I expect will be the next or 2nd next update, to play engie alot more. I was on cp_orange_x3 (which is probably one of my favourite maps), and I developed a new tactic called active engineering, which is damn fun. It is so much more interesting (and rewarding, if played correctly) than tanking behind a level 3 sentry near the intel, which I'm sure we all agree is more a chore than fun, a neccessary job that your team needs. Well active engineering basically consists of using level 1 sentries, based on the fast that if placed well, they can still be devastating. A helpful little technique is rotating your sentries (right click) so they can fit right up against walls rather than you backing up against the wall and leaving them forwards a little. This can be important for a couple of reasons, the main one being that since you aren't there, your sentry needs to unseen until it is too late. If it is backed up against a wall they will take longer to see it and there will be less chance of them getting to cover.
Another much more situational use I found in orange_x3 was that it could fit behing these small slopes and be unseen but if I backed up against the wall and built it then they could see it from the smaller end of the slope, though I doubt that's useful outside that map xD
Once your sentry has been destroyed, it is absolutely paramount that you rebuild it somewhere else. Even if it's a great spot that got you quite a few kills, move it, because surprise is the key here, and you'll get more kills from the newly placed sentry (if placed well) than one they are expecting. However, if your sentry got huge kills (like 10 in one life or something) then I suggest you abandon active engineering and tank that shit to level three with a dispenser. Even then, once it gets destroyed a couple of times (or once if the enemy team is small and they all know it's there because it becomes worthless again), go back to AE.
But sentries aren't the only thing you should play with, because engies are valuable team members. Place teleporters offensively, since you will be running around alot anyway. If one or two people get through far up in their lines, excellent. If not, who cares? Rebuild 'em. Also, teleports bag you points, and the more the merrier.
Onto dispensers. First and foremost, you don't use them. You don't have time to build a dispenser by a sentry and you're not tanking it, so build it in a place where it's useful to other players, like a sniper deck or area. They'll be really grateful, as they won't have to rush back to spawn rooms or shout for medics who will likely ignore them as they are low priority healing targets, just like scouts.
Most important are your weapons. Use them. You have a shotgun (for short-med distance, a pistol (for long distances, and it has ridiculous ammo!) and a wrench (for very close range, and it has a huge crit rate!)
All of these are surprisingly effective, but common sense is key...don't be doing this kind of thing on the 2fort bridge for example...you will just get killed. However, on alot of maps, there are oppurtunities for the engie to ambush and kill enemies. Orange_x3 is a brilliant map for this, so I'll use it as an example. Basically theres a large three story tower in the centre of quite an open battlefield though the final cp is round the corner, near spawn. The important thing is the tower, which provides excellent blind spots where the enemy can ran up stairs facing the wrong way to be sentried from behind, or run out past a trench and get slaughtered. This trench is also an excellent spot for placing tele exits in enemy territory, and for placing dispensers in friendly territory if your team hasn't pushed very far forwards. All the while the engineer can place dispensers (or a tele exit if offensive ones keep getting destroyed) at the top of the tower to support those on the cp there, while jumping off and around the tower and shooting a couple of shotgun bullets as he falls behind enemies, set up for a wrench or pistol kill before retreating up the tower.
Also, always remember that staying alive is more important than keeping buildings alive. They can be rebuilt easily, and are expendable, especially using this tactic. If a spy places a sapper on a building, don't rush back to it in a mad dash only to not get there in time and realize you wasted the oppurtunity for a kill or an assist AND your building was destroyed.
Basically, get your priorities straight.
edit: wow, tl;dr...
For those who skipped it, it's a mini-guide to a new engineer playstyle I call active engineering, and it's actually fun. If you hate engie because it's boring, have a read.
Anyone else interested want to suggest a time they're available? Please keep in mind time zones, school and work whatever for other.
Also I have decided, in anticipation of what I expect will be the next or 2nd next update, to play engie alot more. I was on cp_orange_x3 (which is probably one of my favourite maps), and I developed a new tactic called active engineering, which is damn fun. It is so much more interesting (and rewarding, if played correctly) than tanking behind a level 3 sentry near the intel, which I'm sure we all agree is more a chore than fun, a neccessary job that your team needs. Well active engineering basically consists of using level 1 sentries, based on the fast that if placed well, they can still be devastating. A helpful little technique is rotating your sentries (right click) so they can fit right up against walls rather than you backing up against the wall and leaving them forwards a little. This can be important for a couple of reasons, the main one being that since you aren't there, your sentry needs to unseen until it is too late. If it is backed up against a wall they will take longer to see it and there will be less chance of them getting to cover.
Another much more situational use I found in orange_x3 was that it could fit behing these small slopes and be unseen but if I backed up against the wall and built it then they could see it from the smaller end of the slope, though I doubt that's useful outside that map xD
Once your sentry has been destroyed, it is absolutely paramount that you rebuild it somewhere else. Even if it's a great spot that got you quite a few kills, move it, because surprise is the key here, and you'll get more kills from the newly placed sentry (if placed well) than one they are expecting. However, if your sentry got huge kills (like 10 in one life or something) then I suggest you abandon active engineering and tank that shit to level three with a dispenser. Even then, once it gets destroyed a couple of times (or once if the enemy team is small and they all know it's there because it becomes worthless again), go back to AE.
But sentries aren't the only thing you should play with, because engies are valuable team members. Place teleporters offensively, since you will be running around alot anyway. If one or two people get through far up in their lines, excellent. If not, who cares? Rebuild 'em. Also, teleports bag you points, and the more the merrier.
Onto dispensers. First and foremost, you don't use them. You don't have time to build a dispenser by a sentry and you're not tanking it, so build it in a place where it's useful to other players, like a sniper deck or area. They'll be really grateful, as they won't have to rush back to spawn rooms or shout for medics who will likely ignore them as they are low priority healing targets, just like scouts.
Most important are your weapons. Use them. You have a shotgun (for short-med distance, a pistol (for long distances, and it has ridiculous ammo!) and a wrench (for very close range, and it has a huge crit rate!)
All of these are surprisingly effective, but common sense is key...don't be doing this kind of thing on the 2fort bridge for example...you will just get killed. However, on alot of maps, there are oppurtunities for the engie to ambush and kill enemies. Orange_x3 is a brilliant map for this, so I'll use it as an example. Basically theres a large three story tower in the centre of quite an open battlefield though the final cp is round the corner, near spawn. The important thing is the tower, which provides excellent blind spots where the enemy can ran up stairs facing the wrong way to be sentried from behind, or run out past a trench and get slaughtered. This trench is also an excellent spot for placing tele exits in enemy territory, and for placing dispensers in friendly territory if your team hasn't pushed very far forwards. All the while the engineer can place dispensers (or a tele exit if offensive ones keep getting destroyed) at the top of the tower to support those on the cp there, while jumping off and around the tower and shooting a couple of shotgun bullets as he falls behind enemies, set up for a wrench or pistol kill before retreating up the tower.
Also, always remember that staying alive is more important than keeping buildings alive. They can be rebuilt easily, and are expendable, especially using this tactic. If a spy places a sapper on a building, don't rush back to it in a mad dash only to not get there in time and realize you wasted the oppurtunity for a kill or an assist AND your building was destroyed.
Basically, get your priorities straight.
edit: wow, tl;dr...
For those who skipped it, it's a mini-guide to a new engineer playstyle I call active engineering, and it's actually fun. If you hate engie because it's boring, have a read.
